Monday, December 3, 2007

Chanukah lights in Public Property that Damages...

Camel overloaded with flax that knocks over a Chanukah candle of a store owner...
What is the law if the store owner placed the Chanukah candles inside?
What is the law if the store owner placed the Chanukah candles outside his store?
What is the reason for either case?

50 comments:

Julie said...

The Channukah candle could have been put in a window...

Lauren said...

It is the camel owner's problem because it was his fault that the camel spilled the flax.
If they are Chanukah candles, the storeowner is exempt from paying for the damages.

Julie said...

If the candles were inside, then you were not completing the laws of publicising Hannukah!

nadine said...

you put it in a window and the camel has to pay if its inside but the owner of the store has to pay if its outside the reason for these is because its the owners responsibility if its outside of his property and visa versa

carmelle said...

1)He has to put it by a window.
2)it must be far enough so the store won't catch on fire.
3)it should not make the store catch on fire!

Sarah Q said...

the chanukah candle should be higher than the camel wagon thing or ten amot (fists)

E Palte said...

Chanukah Inside store: camel owner pays
Chanukah Outside store: camel owner

Reason-He was trying to publicize the Mitzvah so the camel owner destroyed a Mitzvah

Leah said...

If they are Chanukah candles, then the store owner is exempt because he was just fulfilling the mitzvah. If the candles were placed inside, then it is the camel owner's fault because the camel was the one that got the flax in the store.

The reason for all these cases is that you should publicize the miracle of chanukah.

gotarheelz said...

If the candle are inside of the store then the camel owner must pay, but if the candle is outside in a public property then the store owner must pay for the damages. The reason for this case is to figure out who would pay if this incident occurs.

Julie said...

A reason for having the candles inside is that there may not be windows or they may be tinted...

Bruce Springsteen And Ari said...

If the candle is inside the shop, then it is the camel owners fault. His flax rolled into the store. If the candle was outside, the store owner pays. This is because the camel might have stumbled and lit the candle. This is the negligence of the store owner for leaving a flammable object outside.

michael L said...

If its inside the store owner the camal owner has to pay for the damages

If its outside the store owner the camal owner has to pay for the damages

The reason for the 2nd one is b/c sum1 is obligated to publisize the miracle the best they can and its hard to c from inside the store

Evan W. said...

If the candles were inside it was the camel owners fault but if it was outside it was the store owners fault

Anonymous said...

if they were inside, he is exempt because they are the chanukah candles. if they were outside, it is the camel owner's fault.

Evan W. said...

the reason is b/c we need to publicize the miracle of hanukkah

gabe said...

If the store owner places the candle inside it is not his fault because it was not placed in a place easy to knock down. He is responsible because there are carriage that often pass through the streets and the candle was placed in a vulnerable place. The reason for this case is so we can apply cases similar to it and use the laws that apply to it.

Zane said...

Chanukiah Inside store: camel owner pays
Chanukiah Outside store: camel owner

Reason-He was trying to publicize the Mitzvah so the camel owner destroyed a Mitzvah

Julia Emma said...

The law if the candle is inside is the camel owners fult because the store owner was being responsible. If its on pulic land its the store owners fault, and if they are right out store no ones fault because its channukah candles.

Hallie said...

You have to put it in the window. If it is outside you have to put it in a visible but safe place. It should be higher then 10 fists. This is because it has to be in a safe place. If it is inside then it would be the owner of the stores fault but if it is outside it is the camel owners fault

Lauren said...

If it is such a problem, don't have a Chanukiah OR candles...problem solved.

Julie said...

Leah,
The hannukah candles were supposed to be in a window or publicized somehow. so if the candles were inside, then he was not doing as he was supposed to. it doesnt mean he is obligated, but he is not fulfilling a mitzzvah.

Jacob Singer said...

If the store owner put the candle inside his store it is the camel owners fault because he is responsible for the camel, but if the store owner put it outside than it is his fault because his is putting it in a public place which he doesn't own it.

alexa ratner said...

If the candles were outside then it would be the store owner's fault. If the candles were in a window then the camel's owner would be at fault! The reason for the candles in the first place was to publicize the miracle of Hanukkah.

Sarah Q said...

Lauren,
you have to have chanukkah!!!!!

Leah said...

Zane- but it's not the camel's fault that he messed up the mitzvah, what if he was just not paying attention. Like the other instance we talked about with the baby!

michael L said...

JILE, LEAH ( woops caps) and zane and kinda nadine.. r wrong
michael Llor is the rite 1

Bruce Springsteen And Ari said...

Chanukiah Inside store: camel owner pays
Chanukiah Outside store: camel owner

This reasoning makes a lot of sense.

Leah said...

haha michael.

michael L said...

blog

Lauren said...

Sarah Q - what if someone doesnt care about it or they're not Jewish?

michael L said...

people should put it in a glass case so nothing catches on fire but the glss

Sarah Q said...

Lauren, Then the law doesn't aplly to them. . . this is about a jewish store owner of course they celebrate chanukah!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zane said...

leah- Zane says it isn't the camel's fault but it is the camel's owner for not controlling the animal, and that is resolving memrah said by Zane Hellmann

Julie said...

What if the glass case is too expensive michael?

Lauren said...

sarah q - well maybe they don't care about it, and if they do then why can't they just put it in a window? If the window is tinted or if its a hassle or whatever then just don't have a chanukiah or have one at home or something. why is it so important to put one in a store anyway?

Leah said...

Leah meant that what Zane said was right because that's what Leah meant to begin with.

Sarah Q said...

lauren- what if the store and their house is the same place????? huh? huh?!?!?!?!?

Ari Karp said...

Ravina (yes the one that helped Rav Ashi compile the Mishnah) learns the reason for the store owner being exempt if it was placed outside is because we don't want to burden someone with fulfilling the law of Persumei Nisah.- Attack me...

Lauren said...

sarah q - WHO LIVES IN THEIR STORE?? and if they do then they are obviously poor and wouldnt be able to afford a chanukiah OR candles....huh??? huh????? HUH??????????

Julie said...

Rabbi Karp,
Where did Ravina learn that from?

E Palte said...

But publicizing the miracle is a law so a Mitzvah shouldn't be a burden to us because it is something that we should want to do-we should wasn't to listen to HaShem

michael L said...

oh ravina is definetly wrong
b/c its not a burden to put it anywhedre. it takes like 2 sec.

Sarah Q said...

lauren- this law/talmudness was written a long time ago back then it was normal

Leah said...

Rabbi Karp- so even if the whole city burns down and everything is destroyed is because of the candles outside, and the store owner is exempt?

If it is a burden that it would actually be a better mitzvah because you spend more time on it.

Lauren said...

sarah q - well fine then....i <3 you!

Ari Karp said...

Julie, Ravina learnt that from the fact that the person could have lit his candles higher than 10 feet which would have prevented the flax from catching fire. The Rabbis dont want to burden him to climb that high.

Julie said...

But if they do not burden him, then it is just like asking him to even light the candles is burdening him...

Ari Karp said...

Very good question Leah! I will look into it for you.

michael L said...

hey

Ari said...

Chanukah Inside store: camel owner pays
Chanukah Outside store: camel owner